…says quality of representation at national legislature has dwindled
Hon Teejay Yusuf, an economist, former NANS executive at the national level in the 1990s, represented Kabba/Bunu/Ijumu Federal Constituency of Kogi, in the 7th, 8th and 9th HoR, a vibrant lawmaker on the floor of the House. In this chat with Naijablitznews Associate Editor, Gloria Ikibah spoke on President Bola Tinubu’s first anniversary, politics of fuel subsidy withdrawal, poor representation at the upper legislature and other national issues, excerpts.
President Bola Tinubu just clocked one year in office, how will you assess his administration so far?
That’s why from day one I promised myself never to contest if I can’t satisfy those I am going to represent.
You’ll be coming, you’ll make this promise, and what have you. And I remember very well, I told God, if you know that I’m going to be like that, and the narrative will be like, after he won, don’t let me win the election. So I don’t want to be part of those statistics.
So it was so bad that it is now becoming a normal narrative in Nigeria that those clichés come for election, and after election, they’re dumped in the dustbin.
So one year, you can say you have one, two, three ministers who have shown character of presence. Like I said, I had an interview a few days ago. I said, one major, major policy somersault that was a good thing to do, but was not properly articulated and managed was subsidy removal. So that took away whatever gain they would have gotten.
I remember I told people that in 2012, on Sunday, January 8, House of Reps came out with a motion against subsidy removal. I moved that motion.
And I articulated then that I’m not opposed to subsidy removal, I’m an economist. But there are processes to removal of subsidy, and there’s no country in the world that doesn’t subsidize.
But it is wrong to subsidize fuel, because you enrich and empower the rich more, and you impoverish the poor, when you subsidize fuel. But you now take subsidy into education.
A man on salary of N30,000, who’s transport from Nyanya to work, used to be N100, subsidy removal would take it to like N150, or N200, or N300.
But he should have a gain by saying, the school fees of my child is being taken care of. He’s aware that if he goes to hospital, that certain things are being taken care of.
So that’s how you do it. So take the effect. In economics, there’s a so-called ripple effect, bandwagon effect. So these things are normal.
When you hear economists define economics as social science that study human behaviour. So the behavioural pattern of an English man, it’s not the same with a Yoruba man.
My mother is a market woman. Fuel subsidy removal, it means that transport from market to market has increased. How goods will increase? She’s not waiting for interest rate. She has no time for analysis.
So until we put these things into perspective, we will not get out of this thing. Our democracy, our policies must take it to cognizance who we are as a person.
My solution would have been, President Tinubu, you know you are removing subsidy. I have a one-year plan. By December 2024, there won’t be subsidy.
But before then, by April, there will be buses out. By so, so, so, there will be this. Not that you take away fuel subsidy, you are now planning palliative. You are not beginning to do palliative. It should have been in place. So the moment you take it off, you pump in, so that this effect will not affect other areas.
Look at it, you took it out, the moment you took it out, look at what’s happening. You are now struggling to manage it and what have you.
That’s why I say, I don’t know who counseled him. I assume it’s a thorough breed politician who should have had this plan on ground for subsidy so that’s why I couldn’t, I would have said oh Eldorado but unfortunately, he’s a lie if I ever say that.
There are those who believe that what the President is doing is just like somebody who planted some crops and require some time to grow and so we are yet to get to the time to harvest. So are you part of those who believe that the time to harvest is still ahead?
It is natural that there is seed time and harvest. But if you do not plow your ground well, don’t you know what is called stunted growth? Yield can be in 30, 40, 60, 100%. So what kind of yield?
It is the suffering going to be in same measure with the result we are getting? I just analyzed something for you now.
And there’s no way, I was trying to say something of recent. There’s nowhere in the world that you have economic policy from IMF and World Bank being adopted in total in an economy and it works.
You have a responsibility to gather your own good eggs, to analyze and domesticate it. I just analyzed behavioural pattern. I told you about interest rate and my mother.
If you remember, I used to tell you then, I told IBB. When IBB said, all policies he has applied failed. Eskor said, no, all policies known to you, that you have not tried our own policies.
So I don’t agree, it’s human nature naturally, you want to build hope. Those who are saying that are trying to encourage themselves because discouragement can bring despondency and a lot of things.
So it’s good for the polity to hear those kind of things. But I don’t have high expectation.
I look at the dollar fluctuation, what have you. It’s only in Nigeria, that the dollar fluctuates. A lot of places, a lot of others, even when Zimbabwe was crashing, economy, you see how dollar rate was sustained for one month.
But in Nigeria, 10 o’clock is one naira. By three o’clock, it’s only in Nigeria. Go and check, there’s nowhere in the world they have those kind of fluctuation. How?
Simple; it’s only in Nigeria that some people does speculation on their business. They don’t go to transact anything. All they do is they buy dollar, keep to sell. It’s only in Nigeria.
So there are things that are common. It’s only in Nigeria that subsidy removal puts more money in the hand of governors. States who were taking four or five billion are now taking 11, 12, 13, 15 billion.
And an average Nigerian is not looking at the state money, we are all focusing on the national. Nobody is questioning that. So you find states buying dollars, this causes dollar fluctuation.
A lot of state governors buy dollar every month when they get their allocation to store wealth. That’s part of the challenge here. It’s only in Nigeria.
It’s only in Nigeria that the federating unit will come to Abuja every month to share money. There’s no federation anywhere in the world where such is practiced.
Canada is almost like us, multilingual, large, whatever, they have oil. There’s nowhere the central government allocate oil blocs in Canada. The regions allocate, pay tax to the centre. You are taxed according to what you are expected to have.
But in Nigeria, we all gathered here at the table. So how do you promote ingenuity? How do you make people think outside the box when they know they are getting a handout every month?
NLC is talking about minimum wage and what have you. Yeah, it’s good to have minimum wage, but in a good ideal federation, you don’t have the same rate everywhere.
You go to some area of Canada, you are paid seven times more than the other side, but you pay more tax. VAT, everything is higher in those areas. Housing is higher in those areas. The other side, because you are, the ideal of a federation is that each component unit is at liberty to grow at its own pace and based on its capacity. So we have unitary confederation.
You were a former lawmaker. Now, sometimes when during your own time, maybe when the Executive is coming up with inconsistent policies, the lawmakers will use the instrumentality of lawmaking to correct them and do checks and balances, too. Sir, do you think that this 10th Senate has helped the president to stabilize the economy? And how would you rate the 10th National Assembly?
I was supposed to be part of the 10th National Assembly, I ran for Senate. But those who know me will know that I’m not saying this because I’m not there.
Even as a PDP member, I was standing on the floor against certain policies of PDP. So that’s when APC came.
When you take oath of office, it’s not an allegiance to your party. It’s an allegiance to the nation, when you say, you will commit yourself to the good of that, and you swore an oath to that constitution.
So the 10th Senate, not just the 10th Senate, but any parliament in the world that cedes a right of choice of leadership to the Executive will not be able to perform optimally.
They are supposed to work together, Parliament and Executive, but there’s some degree of independence, when your legitimacy as a leader comes from your members, when you know that you can come in as a Speaker or Senate President and go back as a normal member, because first among equal. But when what sustains you belongs to the other arm of government, it can never. So it didn’t start from the 10th Senate, it started from the 9th Senate, National Assembly.
Going back to your 7th Assembly. You guys, on your own, made Tambuwal…
In the 8th Assembly, look at the contest between Dogara and Gbaja. APC anointed Gbaja, they were both of APC, we stood our ground and elected Dogara.
So, even when you have genuine, passionate, patriotic desire, the environment cannot allow you to operate because you have leaders who are looking around their shoulder not to be seen as being paying evil with good because somebody extended olive branch to help you.
Even when that decision you would take would be of good to the Executive, you don’t know how they would take it. So you now find people on the floor who want the Executive to see them as being good boys.
And to me, being a good boy is speaking truth. If you claim you love me and I’m heading to the ditch and you keep pampering me and I enter the ditch, or you stop me, I don’t like it, but you save me from the ditch. Tomorrow I’ll sit back.
I tell people, my mom, I lost my dad in primary school and my mom was a very tough disciplinarian, so bad that she would be traveling, I would be praying for her to die, not to come back because once you report me, there’s no question I’m the bad person.
So in those days growing up, if your friend wants to fight, you fight nah, why will I report? They will say no, don’t fight him, go and report him. I’ll start begging, because she will not ask question.
So these days when people now see me, oh, T.J,, you have ethics, values and what have you, I say “na beating they carry arrange me”.
So you can imagine if she had not done that, I would have been of best, a very strong bus conductor somewhere today.
So what you don’t understand is that the truth you don’t tell will discipline you tomorrow as a nation.
So the 10th Assembly to me, has not been able to be what it should be because of the manner it came.
And it’s unfortunately too, I’m sorry, the quality of men and women who are being recruited from Nigerian society, so it’s a reflection of where we are as a people, our values. So they didn’t come from Ghana, they are Nigerians.
So the quality has been on the decline. Every year, those who are coming are well ill equipped. And the expectation of Nigerians, too, because they are misplaced, put pressure on them not to do the right thing.
An average Nigerian once you win election is about, my wife gave birth yesterday, my children’s school fees and what have you. But when they are criticizing, they talk about the road. But when they are engaging you, they talk about those things.
So they say the things that make people feel they want development, but when they engage you, it’s about the personal benefit. And once you cannot throw that largess you are not a good man.
So the man who wants to do a good job, will now must be in the good book of the Executive to get things, so I have resources to take it. So that’s why you find a lot of good men lose election and don’t come back.
Sir only yesterday, the Senate passed a law to re-introduce the old national anthem. Is that the kind of decision we’re looking at this point in time?
I sincerely want to defer a bit, inasmuch as there are a lot of burning issues. But if in their wisdom, they look at it that the present national anthem does not really project us.
As a student union leader, we used to sing the older national item. We don’t sing the present national unit present. In fact, we even rebranded it.
I remember in 1992, IBB came to University of Jos to launch a programme. We made sure that Maiyegun was the president then and this my friend that just left now, was NANS President in 1990. The tall guy, Segun Maiyegun just took over then.
And we remember IBB sat down, settled down, we brought Maiyegun in with him when IBB was already sitting. We sang our own old version. Nigeria, we failed thee, our own dear sovereign land, hunger and death are reigning, in mournful mood we stand, Nigerians are sad to mourn, our suffering motherland. We changed Nigeria we hailed it to Nigeria we failed thee.
So at that time, we were convinced that this arise does not project us and that it’s not inspiring enough; so if they feel that, I’ve not really, really taken time to see it but to just say, it’s not. It is in the midst you are solving the big problem.
You see, no nation make tangible progress without some form of indoctrination.
An average American just believe America is the best. They’ve not gone anywhere, they don’t know anywhere. In fact, in their subconscious, PhD holder believe that Africa is just one small place and people live on trees because that is the indoctrination that has been given.
So I am of the opinion that as people, from primary school, let’s teach ethics and value and indoctrinate ourself. These bad things, we can’t change it at the top.
So maybe it is their own cosmetic approach to try to do these things, I can’t totally condemn it because it’s the rise o compatriot that inspiring or do we go to the old way? I don’t know. But I think we need some reorientation as a people.
But I don’t think it should be at the top. It should start from school. A child should know that, hey, I have a responsibility to make Nigeria a better place that I can lay my life to sacrifice. Do you have such? No.
An average Nigerian is thinking how to get out of this country. In fact it is only in Nigerian people make money and go and spend it abroad.
You are a leader, you have demonstrated that severally in the House of Reps and in other capacities. We can’t just keep lamenting, we need solution. How do we, all of us cannot embrace the “japa syndrome”. How do we take Nigeria out of the woods?
It starts from the family, our family value. I just told you about my growing up, how my mom would beat us. Do we have such discipline now? Are churches, mosques teaching those values again? You can’t give what you don’t have.
The politics, the politicians, the bankers, the doctors are a microcosm of the macro society. They are a reflection of who we are.
So what is the role of government? The government, that’s why I proposed, I supported Jonathan’s proposal for single six term of 30 years rotation, since we have six geopolitical zone, it goes around.
Because when you come into office, the first one and a year plus, or a year plus you are trying to stabilize, appointment, what have you. Second year, you are starting to get your rhythm to governance.
But at the end of that second year, by third year people are already talking about your election. You have no governance, so the next two years. So it means that a four years tenure, you work for one and a half years; two and a half years is politics.
Once you win the second term, you come in and start to stabilize again. By the time you are in second year, they remind you, you are leaving office. How can do, you must help yourself?
So in eight years, the best you can get is three and a half years or three years of governance. And look at the humongous amount you spend in election.
That’s what I say and to help us build trust and confidence such that election will not be where you come from, where you don’t come from. Let’s have this rotation first of single term of six years.
So build confidence that zone A knows that he will come to us. Zone B, so if you like when it is your tenure, do us shege, it will come to us; so until you build that confidence now.
For now, I tell people, that’s why I keep telling people who say PDP, I’m a PDP man. But PDP cannot nail his own policy on the head and expect to reap from it.
2014, Jonathan had won 2011 election. Yaradua was the president who died, he finished his tenure and what have you and the North felt, no, Obasanjo did this eight years. Yaradua was doing its time, he is going, no, PDP must give it to the North.
And five governors plus Atiku led that revolt, went to APC, got to APC, he didn’t get the ticket but he was still committed to that agenda, supported Buhari to become president.
Buhari now did eight years, he said he wants to be president. How does it sound if after eight years of Tinubu let’s assume now, a Southerner says he wants to be president? How does it sound? Because our election is still on where you come from and what have you.
Is that why people are saying that PDP is gradually going into extinction?
I disagree with that. A party with 13 governors cannot be going to extinction.
APP, that joined to form APC, had only one governor at that time. CPC had only one and this one; a party with 13?
The ambition of those governors is enough to keep the party, their ambition alone. They will want to re-contest now. Or let’s assume six left, remain seven; seven governors?
So when people say, yes, we are not taking our rightful place. The last election to me, we threw it away.
I believe 2019 that we won, that we were robbed. But this last one, we bungled it.
So until we come back to the drawing board, teach ethics and what have you, and lead by example. It should not be that today because it suits you, this is good, tomorrow it doesn’t suit us, it is not good.
If we say it should be the turn of the North in 2015, it should be the turn of the South in 2023. That’s what it should be.
So our children should not just hear what you say, they should see what we do, so as to imbibe those cultures and those values, and know that this are no go area.
So when we evolve that’s my suggestion, after those things, you can now be focusing on wherever you come from, your capacity, if you are the best man, if you want to do 100 years, do it.
But we are not there yet. We are deceiving ourselves if you say we are there. We are so divided by where you come from. That’s where we are, for now.
The call for a shift from Presidential to Parliamentary system of government. What is your take on this?
I would want to reserve my comment about that. I see it as, yeah, it’s political. Parliamentary is more accountable. But would you have equity in the present distribution of legislation, if we are to do parliamentary?
Kano has 24. Jigawa 16 that is 40. Old Oyo, comprising of Oyo, Osun, Oyo 13. Osun 7, all together 21 and Ibadan was acclaimed to be the biggest city in West Africa. “No be human dey there”; so old Sokoto, Zamfara, so this dynamics will come to play in those things.
The idea is good but do we have the tools now? No. I talked about our cleavages, ethnic nationality, and what have you.
Will I feel secured if I don’t have a voice there as a Kabba man from Kogi? And they did not give me. Or let’s say an Isoko man from Delta, if the parliament as constituted, will an Isoko man find himself in a place there?
So, we must look at all these things. So, it must go with standing reforms of our politics. And we have to take something off the constitution.
We did, in a little way, I shouted. Everything should not be in the constitution. The name of local governments in constitution, in state assembly, we wanted to correct Ibarakpa was wrongly spelled, people voted against it. They assume they want to create another local government, just the spelling.
So, there are certain issues that should not be, even local government creation should not be in the constitution. States should be able to do that.
Allocation to me that we’re even fighting now should go to local government and what have you. We should have law.
Kogi state is getting N10, if they like, have 100 local governments; there’s a procedure, there’s a law, how they will share it, it must go to them.
Development in pre independent and early part of post-independent, local governments were doing work, why? Because they own their allegiance to the people and they know what will happen.
But now, and for us Nigerians elites, we over focus on the centre, it’s good, it’s not good again. We leave the states.
I just told you just now, after subsidy removal, most states got triple what they used to get. Has anybody turned the search light on those states?
So, why we not see the ripple effect of those things in life of the people so as to cushion the effect of subsidy; why are we not seeing them?
So, I have never in any way deceived myself that I have monopoly of wisdom, I know it all and what have you. My belief that with the privilege of my relationship, I have some ideas, I can sell.
And human development will naturally, devolve with time. You make mistake, you correct yourself.
THE END