Interview
2027: Atiku must sacrifice ambition for PDP to come back to power – Hon. Tajudeen Yusuf
Hon. Tajudeen Yusuf, lawmaker, who represented Kabba/Bunu Ijumu Federal Constituency, in the Ninth Assembly, in this interview with Sunday Sun warns Peter Obi, the Labour Party presidential candidate in 2023, on pursuing his 2027 presidential agenda with Atiku Abubakar’s support, saying that it would be at his (Obi’s) own peril.
Yusuf also said that the only way for the PDP to return to power is by correcting the “injustice” done in 2015 by returning power to the South.
The former lawmaker also criticised President Bola Tinubu’s first year in office, saying that he performed below average, citing the administration’s policy on fuel subsidy removal as the sole reason, among others. Excerpt:
We have read about all sorts of crises and decampment in the PDP both at the national and state levels. What is really happening in the PDP?
It is the normal trajectory of a political party that is not in power, experiencing conscious effort by its factions to focus on gaining power. An example of this is the All People’s Party (APP) in 1999, which was a significant opposition to the People’s Democratic Party (PDP), but eventually disintegrated. In our current political landscape, there is a tendency for individuals not to remain loyal to their party when it is not in power. This loyalty was evident when the Alliance for Democracy (AD), All Nigeria Peoples Party (ANPP), and Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN) merged to form the All Progressives Congress (APC) and successfully challenged the dominance of the PDP. As history shows, individual parties may struggle to compete with a dominant party like the PDP, but through strategic alliances and mergers, a stronger opposition can emerge. Currently, the PDP, despite being out of power for nearly a decade, remains a formidable force with significant support, including 13 governors. The party is experiencing internal dynamics as members plan for the 2027 elections, with ambitions to create a new political landscape. While uncertainties exist within the APC regarding potential defections, the PDP is seen as the primary challenger to the ruling party due to its established structure and support base. In essence, the PDP’s current position reflects a common phase for political parties outside of power, where internal reorganization, strategic planning, and alliances are crucial for regaining political relevance and challenging the ruling party.
But most Nigerians are disappointed that PDP is not offering strong opposition like it should because of the crisis, the latest being Edo State, your members are decamping en masse from PDP to APC. What is that issue that cannot be resolved?
In the realm of politics, the adage “every politics is local” holds true. The dynamics within the Edo institution are notably distinct. A recent example involves the former Deputy Governor of Edo State who sought the PDP ticket, but was unsuccessful. Feeling marginalised within the PDP, he returned to the APC, his former party. This scenario exemplifies the prevalent trend of defections in Edo. In situations where electoral outcomes and personal ambitions collide, individuals may perceive a lack of fair treatment, prompting them to switch allegiances. While in many regions, individuals typically address grievances within their party, in this particular context, political defections are commonplace. Those of us who resist this norm are sometimes viewed as rigid. However, fostering a robust ideological discourse within political structures is essential for the advancement and consolidation of democracy. Although progress in this regard is still lacking, it is crucial for the growth of democratic principles. While acknowledging the presence of factionalism within the PDP, it is imperative to recognize the need for ideological clarity in political movements. As we mark 25 years of democracy, it is vital to draw inspiration from nations with centuries of democratic tradition and strive to uphold the rule of law as the cornerstone of our political landscape, ensuring fairness and equality for all.
You mentioned that earlier a merger made APC to become a stronger opposition and eventually wrest power from the PDP in 2015. Will you prescribe the same for your party, the PDP?
It is not out of place. It was contemplated in 2019 strongly and I was even a member of that committee that looked at it, but there was now a request for tinkering with the name. And some people were too emotional with the name PDP they didn’t want to tinker with it. In 2023 some people came up with this same idea too, so it will always come up. I believe that if we strike the right chord some will join and what have you. Until ambitions are defined or subjected to basic equity, the unity of purpose of a nation and what have you. If anybody’s ambition becomes larger than the nation’s interest, we will remain where we are. Remember in 1999 PDP came and Obasanjo became the president, he did eight years. Odili ordinarily would have won the primary of PDP in 2007. He was to most I mean, I’m not God, but it seems as if he had canvasses and what have you, he was more acceptable to everybody. But in the wisdom of those men, knowing that after Obasanjo’s eight years power should return to the North, Yar’Adua emerged. Yar’Adua did three years plus and died. Jonathan, his vice president stepped in. He ran for the 2011 election and won by 2013, 2014, there was agitation in the North that it must be there turn. The agitation was led by about five or six governors arrowheaded by Alhaji Atiku Abubakar. I mean, I remember the Eagle Square PDP convention, where they staged a walkout, that they felt it’s the turn of the North. That Obasanjo having done eight years, and Yar’Adua having done only three years, it was their turn. That is why we need to put these things into perspective that our politics as are today, you cannot divorce religion, ethnicity and those things away from it. And understanding this decide to zone not to geopolitical zone … when people make those assertions, manipulating the facts, I laugh. PDP zone presidential ticket to North and South. We have six geopolitical zones in Nigeria. It is the responsibility of the South to decide whoever emerges from there. PDP national chairman was zoned to the Northern zone not North-central. And Ayu emerged. Senator Ningi was contesting from Bauchi. Shema was contesting from Katsina. North-central was able to streamline to Ayu alone, while other zones had more people and that was how Ayu emerged. So, that’s how the consensus was built. But nobody zoned to the North-central, it was zoned to the North. So, presidential candidacy is always zoned to either North or South. And the North in 2014 felt it must be their turn and some people left PDP and went to APC. That’s why PDP became an opposition party. Even when Alhaji Atiku Abubakar did not get his ambition fulfilled by becoming APC candidate, he stuck with APC for Buhari to emerge because he was convinced it was the turn of the North. In 2019, PDP realising that, hey, is now in the North, no Southerner contested Port Harcourt primaries because it was zoned to the North and Atiku emerged. I believe he won that election. But the legality is that Buhari was declared. I might be wrong, but I believe Atiku won the election in 2023. The North has had eight years with Buhari and so PDP in his wisdom, zoned chairmanship to the North so that the presidential candidate will come from the South. People who wanted to contest vehemently opposed that zoning of chairmanship position. I remember the NEC meeting. I’ve never seen Alhaji Atiku Abubakar so angry that he opposed it because of his ambition. The NEC meeting is done in two phases. The first meeting is open, where addresses are made and what have you. The next is behind closed doors after the press had gone. But Unfortunately, he was so angry that he forgot we were still on the first phase of the meeting and went into the main issue of zoning. But people pushed that it was zoned to the North. And then it came to the presidency…because when I hear him say, if it’s zoned to the Southeast… I heard him say several times that if the presidency is zoned to the Southeast he would not have contested. No. It’s a misrepresentation of truth and fact. The presidency was supposed to be zoned to the South, but Atiku mobilised his structure to make sure it was not zoned to the South. For the first time, PDP could not zone the presidency. I was also a member of that committee, former Benue governor, Samuel Ortom chaired that committee. I followed every activity, each state produced somebody on that platform and Alhaji Atiku Abubkar mobilised every of his supporter, who were on that platform to make sure it was not zoned to the South. So, when it became obvious that it could not be zoned, the party left it open, that’s why he could contest. So, for him to now say if it was zoned to the Southeast…. Zoning is not cast in stone. There are processes of zoning and there are meetings. So, when he truncated that process, he made sure it never happened. Now, he is coming out today and saying if it’s zoned to the Southeast, he would not have contested. So that those who do not have information, who are not privy to the workings of the party will assume and follow gullibly such assertion. It’s not right. The PDP should have zoned the presidency to the South in 2023. Some people argue that Buhari was of the APC and ruled for eight years and PDP is a different party and must not toe the same line on the zoning, but the question is, which country did he govern? Is it not Nigeria? So, the argument is that after APC through a northern candidate has ruled for eight years, should the PDP zone the presidency to the North again? But we are not yet there and we should get to where you come from, your religion should not be determinant of who emerges as president of Nigeria. But we will build trust, confidence where those things become the order of the day, the colour of your skin, the choice of your world, the choice of your association does not determine who or what you will become. But your competence, your capacity should determine that, but we are not there yet of a truth, let’s not deceive ourselves. Even APC after the tenure of Buhari zoned to the South. So, the truth of the matter is that, PDP goofed in not zoning to the South. Because certain cleavages were very strong and entrenched made sure it never happened. I don’t like when such cleavages and interest are now coming out to say, I would not have contested if it is zoned to the Southeast. We didn’t zone to the Southeast. We zone to Southwest, or Southeast, we zone to South.
Are you saying he’s dishonest in his assertion this time and are you saying Peter Obi should not take him seriously?
If he takes him seriously, it is at his own peril. I might be wrong, but Obi knows why he left PDP, forget about all what people are saying. I’m aware of what happened after 2019. And don’t forget that in the same breath, Atiku said PDP will determine. So PDP will determine on Obi who is no longer in PDP? No, let’s be sincere with ourselves. See, it is a mind game. 2027 is coming and so this is marketing strategy. So, gullible people listening to him will say, aha! This man would have buried his ambition if this had happened. I don’t believe it is coming from him, but I believe his strategists are the ones coming up with those things for him to say. See, the last NEC meeting of the PDP, people thought it was about the national chairman, it’s a lie from the pit of hell. It is about 2027. There are going to be congresses in about 20 states and all of a sudden people are just saying the chairman must go, the chairman must stay. Ayu had been there for this long and the house did not sit down and say this is a replacement of Ayu and it was stopped. Because a NEC meeting was called and certain interests felt that if this NEC meeting was held and congresses are conducted without my man as chairman, it might affect my ambition. And then all of a sudden, there was agitation that the national chairman must go. Hey, the chairmanship position was not even on the agenda. But every media house and everywhere, it was about the removal of the national chairman, as if the meeting was about the national chairman. So, what they wanted to do was to coerce the party into taking such a decision. So, as to install somebody that will allow him to make reasonable roads for their 2027 ambition.
President Tinubu will be one year in office on May 29. Nigerians have reacted to all sorts of policies he has churned out. And already the talk about 2027 has begun, can PDP with all its internal crisis give APC a run for its money?
What PDP should do is simple. Go back to the foundation of the principle and policy of the party and zone presidency to the South now. There must be a sense of equity, members must feel that you are a part of a system that recognizes that you deserve to be respected. Tinubu is just privileged, he is fortunate to have won. I have conviction that if we had done it right, Tinubu wouldn’t have emerged, PDP would have won the last election. But we bungled it. So, the only thing we must do is to go back to where you missed it, you can’t be pretending that something is not wrong and you assume things will be right. See, people can bottle up and keep quiet, but that does not mean they are happy with what is going on. You can’t satisfy everybody, but let it be seen that equity is displayed. Buhari has done eight years, the presidency should have gone to the South, if they had done that, it would have reduced all these skirmishes in the party. Whoever is contesting the 2027 election should come from the South and let’s see what will happen. But if we do not do that, we are still hiding behind one finger, pretending if they zone to the Southeast, I will not contest, we are only deceiving ourselves. The mark of a good leader, the mark of a respected patriot is that even when it does not fit or suit your desire, but because the right thing is to be done, you allow it to be. So men and women should rise to the responsibilities of showing character in the PDP. Everyone must realise that this party, some people are gone, some still will go, but it will outlive all of us. The only thing that Nigerians will value us and respect us for, is when we bequeath to them a viral party that can challenge the APC. Because the moment a ruling party does not have a strong party that can challenge them, we have left the people with no choice and it will be so disastrous. That’s what happened in the last election and if we don’t take time it will happen again. Obi will come from here, others will come from there and they will take a chunk, it will be too easy and APC will walk away with victory. It is not rocket science. I tell people to go and study the 2011 Jonathan election. Jonathan was of PDP, to tell you how ethnicity and religion determines our result in the election. But Jonathan’s vote to win 2011, 81 per cent came from South-south, Southeast and Middle Belt. Let me give you Northeast states that produce PDP governors, but voted against PDP in presidential elections. In fact, PDP did not have 10 per cent in Kano and Bauchi and we had PDP governors. We had PDP governor in Sokoto, we had PDP Senators and House of Representatives and yet, PDP did not have upto 25 per cent of the votes cast. Also go and study the 2015 election, 79 per cent came from that block for Jonathan. So, our election is still being determined by those things. People should divorce emotion and go get this data, look at it you will know the pattern of our election.
You said Obi should trust Atiku at his own peril, what do you mean by that?
Well, Obi is a politician and he has ambition. He is meeting a seasoned politician who is saying that if it is going to Southeast he will not contest and you’ll go to the bank with that? Like I said, PDP doesn’t zone to the Southeast, but to the South. And in the same breath Atiku said, PDP will determine… will PDP determine for someone who’s not in PDP? No. So, that’s why I’m saying he can choose to take to the bank all that Atiku has said, it’s his prerogative.
You are sounding as if Atiku is out to destabilise the party if things don’t go his way and he has said he is not retiring from politics any time soon?
I don’t subscribe to those who say he should retire. He has a lot of experience that we can still tap from, but must he be the candidate? What we are lacking majorly in PDP presently is that we do not have that person whose interest is to build harmony and unity and he can fit into that. If Atiku drops his ambition today, he becomes a rallying point. Unfortunately, Obasanjo that was doing that has left active politics, Jonathan did not step in. PDP is not a party that can be owned by one individual. No, but let’s have somebody that people can defer to. When there is an issue we need somebody who understands it’s not about his interest, but about the interest of everyone. That’s what we’re lacking. So, I don’t subscribe to him retiring, I subscribe to him playing that role to make sure that PDP gets it right. When people expressed surprise with my position, I said I cannot deny the fact that I benefited from the PDP. I’ve run the election four times in the PDP, I won three. If I didn’t have that platform, maybe I would not be here. Alhaji Atiku Abubakar cannot deny the fact that the PDP has been too good to him. He won the governorship election before swearing in, he became vice president for eight years. We cannot write the history of Nigeria without remembering him. But it is not in my place to tell a man not to pursue his ambition. I remember in 2012 I granted an interview to the late Andrew Jaiyeola of Thisday. My response to his question was, Jonathan should sacrifice his 2015 ambition for the unity and peace of Nigeria. And people came for me, saying how could you? I saw it at that time. I supported Jonathan, but I felt that with him emerging in 2011, there was a lot of agitation in the North and the insurgency that was coming up, I believe that it was motivated by that assumption that power has been captured from us. I said he was eminently qualified to run for a second term, but for the peace and unity of Nigeria he should sacrifice it. I remember June 12th or 13th when that publication came out, people were reporting me everywhere. What’s your business? What do you want to prove with this? But if you look back now, don’t you think it would have been noble if that was done. If power was zoned to the North by PDP in 2015, we would have been in power by now. So, I’m saying the same thing that Alhaji Atiku Abubakar should sacrifice his ambition for the PDP to come back to power. It might not look popular, but I remember very well when I granted that interview in 2012 it was not popular and it’s still not popular today.
Again Tinubu’s one year in office, how would you rate his administration against the backdrop of his policies so far?
I will rate him below average for one major reason. I think there’s this virtue that every leader deserves to have, courage. But in showing courage you must have empathy and you must be strategic. In an attempt to show courage on subsidy, I think it was wrongly timed and was not well processed. I think that he would have given six months to one year before announcing when the subsidy will stop and then roll out certain policies deliberately. Like I said in 2012 when I moved the motion against the removal of subsidy under Jonathan, in the House of Representatives, and in that motion, I said I’m not opposed to subsidy removal. I’m an economist, but that the manner it was done. I said there’s no nation that does not have one subsidy or the other. But subsidizing fuel is a wrong strategy for us. Let’s transfer the subsidy to education, agriculture. Let it be that a child that is born today, his or her parents does not have any fear of how he’s going to go to school. That way, the government is taking the burden off the family when subsidy is taken off. When food is produced in excess, the government buys and let it go at subsidized rate so that the lowest cadre level of the society can eat. That was my position in 2012 and is still my position now. So, I feel the government was tactless or not too strategic in that approach of removing subsidy. If you observed that is why lot of things came crumbling down, because the system was not ready for it. That’s my major reason for rating them below average. Because it has a ripple effect. There’s what is called the bandwagon effect in economics. One determines what happened to the next. My mother is a market woman. She does not know anything about interest rate, but she knows that when the price of transportation increases the price of her goods must increase. The thing just went boom and we just realised that somebody who feeds his family with N30,000 for a month now feeds his family with that amount in one week. So, this government after the effect of that pronouncement now started thinking of how to help the person. They should have thought of how the consequences of this action will affect the people and plan ahead. It is now we’re launching buses, it is now we are doing food palliative. It should have been with available for the people. The same should have happened in the transportation sector, with the buses already in place and routes mapped out to take the pressure off the people. I still insist fuel subsidy does not benefit the poor, but the rich. Remove subsidy and put it in things that will benefit the people.
Credit: Sun Newspaper
Comedian and actor, Adebowale Adedayo, aka Mr Macaroni, talks to NAOMI CHIMA about his career, activism and love life
You’ve described battling depression and how it inspired your content creation career. What led to the depression?
It is interesting because I am currently dealing with some personal issues. However, I wouldn’t call it “depression”. It is why I have been a bit distant lately. But, what I previously called “depression” was more about frustration. It started after I was expelled from the university due to student activism, though we settled the case later. It felt like I was the ‘problem child’ in my family, especially after my siblings graduated and started working. Once I graduated, I pursued my dream of acting and filmmaking, going for auditions and landing small roles. However, I wasn’t getting the visibility I wanted, which made me question my abilities.
How did you manage to get through that phase?
I never stopped pushing. Giving up wasn’t an option. I always believed I was destined for greatness, even when I didn’t know when or how it would happen. That belief kept me going.
You’ve mentioned being involved in school politics. Did that contribute to your moving through four different universities?
Most of it stemmed from my advocacy. I can’t stand seeing people being cheated. In three out of the four universities I attended, I challenged the status quo, speaking truth to power and addressing injustices. The exception was the third university, where I wasn’t focused because I wanted to study Theatre Arts but didn’t get that course.
How did those struggles shape the version of Mr Macaroni we know today?
I believe it was meant to happen. God blessed me with fame and influence to fight for what’s right and speak up for those without a voice. In my content, I aim to inform, educate and entertain, balancing entertainment with meaning. My experiences have shaped this resolve, and I hope to always use my platform for good.
When did you finally decide to switch to skit-making and why?
I haven’t fully switched to skit making; I am still balancing both. Sometimes, I get tired of comedy, because while studying Theatre Arts, I preferred drama—especially melodrama— for its potential to create change and influence the audience. Though I provide content to my audience, I am more intentional about acting, which is why I have featured in blockbusters and films on streaming platforms. However, I am selective with the roles I take on; they must have meaning.
In your satirical skits, you highlight governance flaws and societal issues. How do you balance humour with the weight of those topics?
As an artist, especially one who gained fame through comedy, one cannot completely abandon comedy. While aiming to inform, I still prioritise entertainment. People need to engage with your content to understand the message. If it feels too serious, they won’t watch. Some may be interested in politics, but others just want fun. I entertainingly deliver the message, subtly incorporating it to keep the audience engaged because, for the message to resonate, it has to be enjoyable. That’s how I balance it.
Do you ever feel pressure to maintain your “Daddy Wa” persona, or is it a mask you’re ready to hang up someday?
Recently, I have been thinking about it too. Sometimes, it gets tiring for an artist. Daddy Wa has become a brand on its own. When I go to places, even before they call my name, they say “Daddy Wa”. To answer your question, I don’t know. We’ll continue to do it as long as we can; maybe until I get tired. Sometimes, I feel like doing it; and at other times, I don’t. But, we’ll keep going because we have an expectant community, and one has to respect that. Drama is life. The character is a family man, and there’s still a lot we can build and play around with. So for now, we’re still on it. Let’s see how long we can continue creating content around it.
The #EndSARS movement revealed your activist side. Was there any moment you feared for your life?
Of course, you have to fear for your life. I don’t think there’s anyone that is not scared for their lives. Yes, there’s fear; but that fear doesn’t stop us from doing what is right, or speaking the truth. At the end of the day, no one lives forever. How you live your life is what’s most important. For someone like me, I am fully committed to a better society — an enabling environment where everyone can thrive. So, whether I fear for my life or not is inconsequential to the struggle. I worry, but we must continue to stand up and do what’s right.
As an activist, how do you deal with being labelled as “anti-government” or “a troublemaker”
It is hypocrisy and sometimes ignorance. Many who call me anti-government were once critics of the previous administrations, but now that they’re in power, they don’t want criticism. We don’t hate the government; we want things to improve. Governments can’t betray the people’s trust and expect praise. If they serve the people genuinely, we will appreciate them.
Do you think the fight for justice in Nigeria is progressing, or are we simply recycling the same issues?
If you ask me about progress, I’d ask you to show it. Things are getting worse, and we’re recycling the same problems; only that they’re worsening over time. We complained about the exchange rate years ago, and it’s even worse now. The same goes for fuel prices. Even as things worsen, we can’t stop speaking up, because it is our only hope. But, everyone must be involved. It can’t just be a few people speaking up while others say, “We are proud of you”. If all Nigerians demand change together, there will be some level of progress. Political games, tribal divisions and religious biases divide us, making it seem like critics are anti-government. But it’s about holding the government accountable and demanding better for all. I hope Nigerians will unite and do the right thing.
What does success mean to you?
Success is subjective and depends on the goals or objectives one has set. The moment you achieve your goals, you’ve succeeded. On a societal level, people may measure success by impact or recognition, but success is deeply personal. Achieving it requires perseverance because obstacles and challenges are inevitable. The key is to keep going, as quitting eliminates the possibility of success.
You’ve featured a wide range of people from Nollywood legends to fellow skit makers. What’s your process for deciding who fits into your world of comedy?
I just let my imagination run wild. Once an idea pops up in my head, I start thinking about who can best deliver or fit into that role; while at other times, it’s about admiration for someone’s work. In those cases, I write a story to fit the individual’s strengths and persona.
From “ooin” to “freaky freaky,” your catchphrases have become popular. How much of Mr Macaroni’s brand is carefully planned versus being spontaneous?
“Freaky Freaky”, “are you there?”, “what’s going on here?” and other such phrases were not even scripted. Sometimes, we write out the script, especially when we want to feature some legends or icons, so that they can have an idea of what we want to do. But, most of those popular catchphrases were not even in the scripts. I can’t even remember the first time I started saying, “what’s going on here?” But, I noticed that people loved the way it was delivered and they held on to it. From there, it became popular.
With the bevy of endowed women you constantly parade in your skits, it’s hard to imagine that you’re still single. What’s the reason for that?
Being single is a personal decision. It is not because there aren’t loving or kind women out there, but because I don’t feel ready for a relationship. I don’t think I’m mentally prepared for it. I want to avoid making someone feel bad or hurt, even unintentionally. For example, if I’m not living up to expectations or am not as available as they hoped, it could lead to misunderstandings. To avoid this confusion and hurt, I’ve decided that it is better to remain single until I’m 100 per cent sure I’m ready to share my life with someone.
What are the qualities you like in a woman?
Generally, I’d say qualities like kindness and compassion are important. I look for someone who treats others with respect and dignity, regardless of their status or background. Respecting people is key for me.
What is the most romantic gesture you’ve ever made, and how did it turn out?
I am single and not searching, so I haven’t put myself in that space for romantic gestures. I haven’t focused on it, and I’m content with being single.
How relatable are you with the Daddy Wa character?
People might assume I like certain things because of the nature of my contents, but that’s just Daddy Wa’s personality. The women Daddy Wa likes aren’t necessarily what I like. Just like women have preferences, men do too. But I’m different from Daddy Wa. I’m a virgin, and that’s something everyone knows. I’m not involved in that sort of thing. I’m saving myself for when the time is right.
What’s your favourite food?
I love rice and vegetables. I also enjoy noodles, but only when I make them myself. My noodles are the best in the world. When I was younger, my siblings used to beg me to cook my special noodles for them, because no one could cook them the way I did. My recipe is unique.
What is your favourite sport?
I love playing table tennis. I also used to go to the gym with Broda Shaggi, but right now, I’m just doing some basic exercises. I’m hoping to get back to the gym soon.
How do you relax?
I relax by playing video games when I’m at home.
How did the rumours about you having a relationship or secret marriage with “Mummy Wa” affect your relationship with her?
It did not affect our relationship at all. Mummy Wa is a very dear sister of mine. I consider her family, not just a friend. Our relationship has always been respectful and cordial since we started creating content together. We understand that people assume something is going on because of the chemistry we share in our roles as husband and wife. It comes with the job. We laugh about it, but it doesn’t change the level of respect or regard we have for each other.
Credit: PUNCH
Benson Upah is the spokesperson for the Nigeria Labour Congress (NLC). In this interview with Weekend Trust, he expressed concern that the price of fuel may increase to N5,000 per litre. He added that the recent increase runs contrary to the agreement the union reached with the federal government.
During the week, the price of petrol went up again. What will the NLC do about it?
We are planning to have a meeting with the appropriate organs of the Nigerian Labour Congress (NLC). Those organs will take the decisions. We will take decisions that we believe would be in the best interest of our members and possibly, this country.
Not to pre-empt the outcome of the meeting, what should Nigerians expect?
It will be difficult for me to preempt what the NLC will do because the organ has a very large membership. Let me use the example of the National Executive Council of the NLC; it comprises the president, general secretaries and treasurers of all affiliate unions.
It also comprises state chairmen and secretaries of the state councils of the 36 states and the FCT, as well as members of the National Executive Council of the NLC. So, you can see it is a big family. In the absence of a delegates’ conference, it is the highest organ making body of the congress. So, there will be multiple ideas coming in; you know, we usually have robust debates. We look at issues and the implications from multiple perspectives. I will not be able to preempt the direction for you.
Nonetheless, the mood, I can tell you, is that of anger and I want to say that it is not only within the Nigerian Labour Congress that you have anger. Virtually every Nigerian is angry, except that first one per cent that is maintained by the state. You know, that one per cent has everything; we give them everything, those are the only ones who are not complaining. Every other Nigerian is complaining. So, our mood is reflective of the general mood of the country.
Recently, the president of the NLC said President Tinubu betrayed the union, can you elaborate more on this?
After the announcement, the next day, a Senior Special Assistant to the President on Print Media, Mr Abdulaziz Abdulaziz, said we were lying and there was no agreement. We want to reiterate that we feel betrayed by the present increase in the pump price of petroleum products.
One, when Mr. President called for the negotiation, recall that we were stuck at N62,000 and he made two offers; the first was to agree on the N250,000 we recommended while the price of PMS will rise to N1,500 or N2,000 or he will pay N62,000 and the status quo remains. He told us we had a few hours to consult. The labour leaders did not take the bait, rather we asked to be given more time and later requested at least one week to consult outside the Villa. At the end of that one week, the Presidency met again and the labour leaders unambiguously said we would not accept the offer of N250,000.
This was out of consideration for the well-being of the average Nigerian, because we said ‘what would be the effect of this on the ordinary person?’
To keep this brief, the president acted in breach of his promise to labour leaders and he knows the truth. But let us even look at this matter; what has happened goes beyond the parameters of minimum wage and negotiation. It negatively affects the generality of Nigerians. Since the first wave of price increase, occasioned by the removal of fuel subsidy on May 29, 2023, Nigerians have been trying to reorder their lives to accept the fate they never bargained for.
Coming to terms with 500 per cent hike in cost of education, transportation, food and everything else is not easy. At a time they were just trying to adjust to the new normal, you introduce another shock. So, what we have now is uncertainty; we have moved from pain to uncertainty. In fact, this matter goes beyond the logic and philosophy of our national minimum wage.
When the president mentioned that fuel price will increase to N2,000, one of the labour leaders interjected him and said, ‘Sir, you have removed fuel subsidy, so which other thing are you removing again?’ Remember, the subsidy was removed and prices were stabilised. So, how many times are you removing subsidy, that you have removed? Subsidy was never restored at any point in time as they claimed. So, what will inform moving the pump price of PMS from N650 to N1,500 or N2,000?
I want to tell you something, what this signals is that Nigerians have not seen the end yet, we may end up paying nothing less than N5,000 per liter for fuel in this country. We hope not to get there but if we get there, the decision will be left to Nigerians.
Can the president justify the increase from N650 to N1,000 vis-à-vis the current minimum wage?
I would have said let the president answer that question, but clearly, there is no correlation between the national minimum wage and what he has done. In fact, at the time we demanded N615,000 as the national minimum wage, we broke it down to say N40,000 for rent, N20,000 for food for a family of six. Our permutations were based on a family of six, a husband, wife and four children. We were able to justify that.
We were patriotic enough by coming down to N250,000. But of course, even at that, you saw what the president did. He gave us the devil’s alternatives to choose from and we chose the one we felt was going to be less injurious to Nigerians, believing that he will keep his word but barely a month after, he violated it.
What is the status of the minimum wage, has the federal government commenced payment?
Only one state has started paying and it is Adamawa. We commend the governor for the spirit. But of course, while the process of negotiation was going on, the Edo State governor paid N70,000, with a promise to pay more if the minimum wage was to be resolved to something higher. Lagos paid N70,000. Other than this, I am not aware that other states have started paying, though committees have been put together to work out consequential adjustments to enable them commence payment.
I must tell you; governments are very rich now. What they declare and share from the federation account used to be N700bn, which has since moved to N1.3trn. That is what they declare and it does not include the ones they keep aside and pass under the table. With all of that, have you seen any improvement in the quality of the life of Nigerians? There has been no commensurate improvement, rather what we have been getting is pain, penury and trauma.
What do you think will happen to the other promises the government made; like the CNG buses and other incentives they promised after removing the subsidy in the first instance?
We do not expect much from those promises. How many CNG buses have you seen as an individual? At the time those promises were made, we were also meeting with Innoson Motors, a local brand. We were also in discussion with a reliable foreign firm that makes CNG buses, Yutong, in China. They said they were ready. They assured us they will provide facilities to offer Nigerians soft loans to convert to CNG. At that time, the government said it would cost N800,000 to do it but these people were ready to do it at N250,000.
These facts were made available to the government, yet nothing happened and those conversations fizzled into thin air. So, compare that with what General Ibrahim Babangida did, when he made his own increment. IBB ensured that every state government had a transport company and even labour had a transport company known as Labour Transport Company. It was by virtue of what IBB did, trying to manage the effects of the minimal change when he did his own increase. It was even a minor increase that IBB did compared to what we are now seeing. So, he was prepared and there was no noticeable side effect.
Also, Abacha introduced PTDF, chaired by Gen. Muhammadu Buhari. The impact of PTDF was cross-sector, including providing exercise books. Clearly, our military leaders were better prepared than what we are witnessing today because they anticipated the effects and they were prepared for them.
The president announced that subsidy was gone and did not think of what will be the consequential effects of this policy pronouncement.
The Nigerian government and some other persons believe the current economic challenges are pains Nigerians have to bear for a better tomorrow, what do you have to say to that?
They are insulting our collective intelligence. Those who make such comments are not competent to do so because they are isolated from the pains we bear. The National Council of State passed a vote of confidence on the president the other day, all of them are on subsidy. Let me say this, all of them don’t pay for petrol; they don’t pay for light. We did say that they were not competent to pass any vote of confidence. It is Nigerians; those who face this heat that are competent to pass a vote of confidence.
Those that say we should bear the pains should be jailed or shot. For how long are we supposed to continue like this? This situation has gotten to a point where our yesterday is always better than our today.
I keep telling people who say Buhari was the worst that they are joking. For us at Labour, we found Buhari very accommodating. He did everything humanly possible to ensure that life was stable and good. When he came in, he gave money to the states to pay the backlog of salaries and pensions but it was diverted. He made other interventions to avoid the insane increases.
If you ask those same people now, they will tell you that the Buhari administration was very good. We are talking about less than two years ago. Before Buhari came, it was Jonathan. We said Jonathan had messed up this country, but now look at the indices and compare the exchange rate, the interest rate, the debt. So, we are in a situation where we are progressively getting worse.
Those people who say we need these pains should be shot, how much of these pains would they bear themselves? They can’t even bear one per cent of it. It is because they are isolated from this trauma; that is why they have the effrontery to say that we need the pain. We don’t need these pains. We don’t need the president who will come and complain. When this one first came, he said, ‘I asked for this job’. I was impressed by that, but later he said that these problems were caused by his predecessor. When any leader begins to talk like that, that leader has come to the end of the road in terms of ideas.
Credit: Daily Trust
Dr Efunbo Dosekun, a medical doctor with specialty in paediatrics, is the brain behind Outreach Medical Services. She has been in the medical field for more than four decades.
In this interview with Saturday Sun, she spoke on several health issues relating to women and children. Dr Dosekun stressed the need for both the states and the Federal Government to ensure good remuneration for health workers in the country so as to reduce the rate of migration of health workers (the Japa syndrome). She also advised the government on the need for partnership between federal and private hospitals for effective health care delivery system.
What motivated you to bring women together for the sake of finding a lasting solution to the healthcare issues among women and children?
As far as l am concerned, particularly to African culture, women, children and babies are vulnerable, especially babies. Again, I felt that referral system when we do have an acute problem suddenly with our health, is not good enough. There have been so many instances when we have seen children and babies brought in very late because the parents didn’t know anywhere to go. Or the parents made an attempt to go to the government hospital and had to wait for a long time, and probably not to be attended to. They may be just referred on and on from one hospital to the other till they finally go home or get frustrated. So I said Lagos is quite a developed city in infrastructure, so why don’t we have systems that match it in terms of modernity, system of communication? What I am talking about is medical response system where something has happened and you know a number to call, or you are advised to go to a particular type of hospital, health centre if it is not so bad. Or you may be advised to go to the emergency room. But there must be somebody you have to talk to when you are distressed. In England, you just ring 999 and within 10 minutes someone would attend to you. So I decided that even if it is only rudimentary, there must be a recall centre. So we did a presentation about this to a group of women called, “Women Connect” and they agreed to work with us. We spoke also to Rotary Club and they welcomed the idea. We want to change the narrative. We are mobilising women. We can’t leave everything to government. We need to come together as a movement and talk to people who are interested in social impact to help us. For instance, a community insurance or membership of a call centre for a small subscription can help. We can have access to your call centre and you give us direction 24/7, so that if anything happens at any time to somebody, the person must be able to speak to somebody and that person must be able to negotiate for the person where she would go to, or negotiate an ambulance to propel the person there, if necessary. There is so much being in the dark that I am very concerned. I have been a doctor for 43 years. I am soon going to retire.
Did you take into consideration the Nigerian factor? For instance, poor communication system, transportation, traffic, and so on?
I know there are a lot of constraints, but instead of clogging our heads with constraints, let’s concentrate more on the good things that can happen if there is some intelligence to our medical response system. You may not even get the phone number, but you know that the hospital does this good work; you could just rush off there as an emergency. The beautiful thing about it is that once it starts, we will be able to persuade our colleagues because there are a lot of things that mitigate or stop people from going to hospitals. We know that government hospitals are full. Lagos expanded over a period of 10, 12 years from 10 million to 24 million. And the growth of hospitals has not been so fast because it is not easy to set up a hospital. That is why private sector hospitals have to come in to help, because many private sector hospitals are not full. So we have to find a way which we can mobilise people who need urgent care.
There is increase in child and maternity mortality. What do you think is the cause and how can it be solved?
Everybody always say that they are ignorant, and don’t know what to do. It is a lie. The problem is lack of money. Lagos State Government has really tried in Lagos State. It is minimal. If you can get access to a bed in a Lagos State-owned hospital, it is because it has been taken care of by the Lagos State Government, but you have to pay for drugs, etc. Such is not obtainable in private hospitals. So, government needs to work with us in the private sector. They cannot fulfil the need of 24 million people in Lagos, that is the reason many go to traditional birth attendants (TBAs), and to the chemist boy. The first thing is that the government needs to collaborate with the private hospitals that are ready, because it is not all the private hospitals that are ready to start doing social impact work and changing the public health narrative.
In this situation, government should choose private hospitals to help them, particularly in the area of women, babies and children. This is necessary because the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) rate is almost reaching its termination. Part of the goals is to reduce the mortality rate in children, women and babies. So we need private sector. We need to unlock the potential in the private sector. There are some people who are ready to look at these social issues and are ready to develop innovative and transformative ways of dealing with large crowds. It is possible; it is even done in Indian hospitals. l have seen how they have done it. They brought down the cost, but there must be numbers. Take for instance, if the government promises to give me 50 patients daily, l will expand my premises in order to take as many people as possible. l will have a training institute where l will take young nurses and develop them to be specialised in different skills so they will be able to support the physicians in executing their clinical roles.
So, there are so many things that could be done. The government can call us in and say, for each case you see, l will pay you this amount. Or government can send the subscribers of Lagos State insurance, but of course it has to be reviewed because the premium, the billing is too low and some of these cases require acute care. Acute care is different. It is not like giving analgesics, it is very acute. You are changing the drugs, high quality drugs. They are using oxygen and high skilled people. But the government must think about it. Government cannot just think about the primary health care, because if you think about it, you will still be having lots of deaths. As primary health care does only preventative measures, they do early diagnoses, but there must be well equipped hospitals that will take care of cases that have been diagnosed by primary health care. Without that it makes everything so shallow. Women should mobilise themselves and come together. We just have to care. Wives of politicians, senior bankers, industrialists, and so on, need to leave their ivory tower of splendour and protection and come and sensitise themselves and see the suffering and come together, and demand the physicians or health planners that are interested, to come together and plan.
Having been in the medical field for more than four decades in the healthcare system particularly taking care of children, what do you consider major health challenges facing babies, and how can they be prevented?
Pre-maturity in babies or babies appearing smaller than they should, that is sepsis, mothers having problem during the birthing process, can kill babies. Other killer diseases among babies include; a baby coming out not breathing well, and jaundice. Research has shown that the mother has to be in a good state before and after child birth to avoid malnutrition in babies. To avoid these diseases also, pregnant women should not just sit down at home, they must ensure they attend antenatal care.
I think Nigeria has done well in terms of providing primary health care that are facing antenatal care. There is such a wide choice on where pregnant women could go for antenatal care in Nigeria.
Also, pregnant women need to get in constant touch with doctors, senior nurses. There must be partnership. If there is proper antenatal care with expectant mothers taking their routine drugs, some of the pickup problems such as Caesarean Section (CS) should be detected on time and followed up appropriately.
There is what is called entrapatom period, that is 48 hours before and 48 hours after birth, just a period around delivery. That is when all sorts of things happen. It is a period the mother or the baby can die. A baby may come out not breathing well, but with skilled health practitioners around, some of these problems can be adequately taken care of. Having a baby at home or with traditional birth attendants, we want to see how we can reduce it. Those in rural and semi urban areas, I agree we have to train them, especially when there is no medical centre close by. When they are well trained, they will be able to identify dangers on time and follow up immediately. If those periods can be tidy, we will see fewer problems when the baby comes out.
In this country, we are seeing jaundice which is simple to treat in babies. It is just to put the baby under specialised light, and yet we are having jaundice. High jaundice destroys the baby.
In many West African countries they do not see it anymore, because they have a follow-up system called Health Surveillance System where they check the babies when they are three days, to make sure that they have not become very jaundiced. Our system is not strong enough. To treat jaundice is not rocket science. We need just strategies and then technical team, the doctors, to come up with a real robust programme that is around that time, 24 hours before and 24 hours after, to make sure that everything is standardized whenever the person is going to have the baby. Even the mothers can be trained in these early warning signs.
So when we finish having these things, we now must have a good emergency response system so that when things go wrong, you must be able to call a number. Those workers there must also have a conversation with the hospitals, find out who has a bed, so that we don’t do the crazy thing we are doing where we are sending people from one hospital to the other with a child that is gasping. Can you imagine the pain that parents are going to go through, and this in a private transport Keke Marwa in a country with bridges and skyscrapers? It is not right. Women have to stand up because the political system is still so immature. They are not being called to deliver their mandates. We all just sit down and wait for another election.
Some mothers do not like breastfeeding their babies, rather they prefer artificial milk. What is your take on this?
It is so important that women should breastfeed their babies very well because, breastfeeding does not only give the baby the right nutrient – babies who are well breast fed have a better attachment to their mothers. It is called bonding. It is an emotional bridge between a child and the parents. Research has found that those children who have solid attachment with their parents have less mental health problems. They are able to cope better when they had challenges along the line, even up to old age. Children who are well breastfed have less tantrums, less addiction, and better school performance. This can be referred to as emotional. Also talking about physical health, if you read about the component of breast milk, it did not only contain carbohydrate, protein, fats, vitamins, there is also additional factor there that is going to allow the immune system of the baby to grow, because we know that the immune system grows across time. They challenge the body nerve, which is weak in the first one year. God has given us special fluid to help the baby’s immune system grow properly. Inside the breast milk, there are already resolved factors. There are factors there that stimulate the immune system. There are bacteria there that are called friendly bacteria that stimulate the immune system, particularly in that breast milk in the first few days of life. It is yellow and it is called cholesterol.
How about adults? Some have said breast milk is also good for adults.
That’s right. Even now, adults take it because it has such a useful element in it. It makes a healthy adult. So we must not miss that opportunity. This is the time that the old and the new can combine. In our native culture there’re different ways we can do to promote lactation, and also in modern science, there are equipments that they give. There are also herbal drugs that can help in lactation.
Report has shown that there is increased rate of medical flight in the country. What is the way out?
Medical flight is natural phenomena. The fact is that things are getting tougher in the country and people are looking for a way out. If the private and government hospitals can pay their health workers well, l think it will go a long way in reducing the rate in which health workers leave the country in search of better remuneration.
What is your advice to women?
There is need for women, particularly in Lagos, to form a women group that will enable them establish community insurance. Let us have a community insurance, no matter the small amount. Let us do less fashion, and decide the amount that each will put down every month and, we have volume and we can now plan. With such plan in place, women will know hospitals to partner with, so that when they or their children are sick, they will know which hospital to visit, and such hospital will not charge them much because it is a group thing.
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